This is what Jay Beattie is hiding from

[Andre Jute]

You may remember that when Jay defended Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, Antifa, and the nightly arson in Portland, and refused to condemn the State Attorney General, who Jay said was his mate, for letting criminals walk, I blamed him as per my promise when poor Joe Biden was elected President, and forecast disastrous fallout that would drive out the middle classes, the backbone of every successful city, culture, and nation. Jay had no answers and ran away.

This is as stark as it gets. Pay attention to Texas Governor Abbott's comment, "This is what happens when cities refuse to enforce the rule of law. It allows the mob to take over. Businesses can't operate in that environment, and people can't live in it."

Walmart Closing Final Locations in Major US City, Months After CEO Warning About Retail Theft
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2023/03/06/walmart-closes-portland-locations-n2620242

This is not an incidental consequence. Lenin said, "Things must get worse, much worse, before they get better." The Left's wrecking policy -- Horselaugh Kamala collecting money to put up the bail for criminals -- is the deliberate creation of chaos so that they can step into the vacuum that follows the destruction of security and grab power.

Wheeler, and other crime-friendly blue-city mayors like him, is a criminal.

I feel the pain of lifelong Donkey Party members of perfectly acceptable goodwill who realise their part in all this as voters makes them liable for the criminal betrayal of their responsibility. But there must be a reckoning, not with the Jay Beatties of this world whose consciences will punish them, but with the "useful idiots" who salivate at the Donkey Party's wrecking, of which RBT has more than its fair share.

Scum is as scum does.

Andre Jute
Hey, I just tell it like it is. If the message is too powerful for you, don't read it.
>

[William Crowell]

If the Walmart in my town were to close, Andre, it would impact my finances pretty severely because I do as much of my grocery shopping there as possible because it is a lot cheaper than the supermarket chains. (Example: a bottle of my favorite spaghetti sauce is $2.58 at Walmart and $3.99 at the grocery chain store.)

But here are my rhetorical questions: (preface:) it seems like there are a lot of people in the U.S. who just can't (or won't) cut it, financially, and therefore turn to a life of crime. (Now the rhetorical questions:) I wonder how many people we would have to incarcerate in order to remedy the crime problem; how much it would cost; and what would be the effect on our society of locking so many people up. Maybe incarcerating all the criminals would create a new constellation of societal problems that are not easy to envision from this vantage point. (Just asking/saying. As is probably apparent, I surely don't claim to have any answers.)

[Lou Holtman]

It is my strong belief that locking up people doesn't solve the underlying problem. Why am I or you not a criminal?

Lou

[William Crowell]

Lou asked: "Why am I or you not a criminal?"

In my case it's probably because I knew how ashamed it would have made my parents, and I could never live with that guilt. Also, every year we would have a family reunion (large family; my paternal grandparents had 19 kids. Just think how many they would have had if they'd been Catholic!) and and at these reunions my grandmother and my aunts would tell us young kids that no one in our large family had ever been convicted of a serious crime, and that if we ever were the entire extended family would disown us.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 01:49:31 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman
<lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 9:50:32?AM UTC+1, William Crowell wrote:

Some people are so aggresively evil that they must not be allowed to
interact with decent people. We can lock them up, or arm the decent
people so that they can try to protect themselves from those that
steal and attack.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 7:05:11 PM UTC-5, the angry little afro-irish troll wrote:
> < more ignorant political bullshit>

And once again, the useless irish troll takes another political shit in a cycling forum
On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 11:09:54 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/986D_mm3Twk/m/NTbOFqXWAQAJ
>
> This Group would be a far better place without the Stupid five..
> The cite would return to information MOSTLY but not entirely about bicycles as it was when Jobst moderated it.

[Roger Meriman]

The prison population is overwhelmingly full of broken people, from mild
learning disabilities to folks with brain injuries and so on, who have
fallen through the gaps in the system.

Like bike maintenance it’s easier if something is done early rather than
waiting until it’s a issue.

Ie to the best of my knowledge while rehabilitation can work catching folks
before has far better outcomes.

But well no one has ever claimed politicians look long term!

Roger Merriman

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:50:32 AM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:05:11 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > You may remember that when Jay defended Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, Antifa, and the nightly arson in Portland, and refused to condemn the State Attorney General, who Jay said was his mate, for letting criminals walk, I blamed him as per my promise when poor Joe Biden was elected President, and forecast disastrous fallout that would drive out the middle classes, the backbone of every successful city, culture, and nation. Jay had no answers and ran away.
> >
> > This is as stark as it gets. Pay attention to Texas Governor Abbott's comment, "This is what happens when cities refuse to enforce the rule of law. It allows the mob to take over. Businesses can't operate in that environment, and people can't live in it."
> >
> > Walmart Closing Final Locations in Major US City, Months After CEO Warning About Retail Theft
> > https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2023/03/06/walmart-closes-portland-locations-n2620242
> >
> > This is not an incidental consequence. Lenin said, "Things must get worse, much worse, before they get better." The Left's wrecking policy -- Horselaugh Kamala collecting money to put up the bail for criminals -- is the deliberate creation of chaos so that they can step into the vacuum that follows the destruction of security and grab power.
> >
> > Wheeler, and other crime-friendly blue-city mayors like him, is a criminal.
> >
> > I feel the pain of lifelong Donkey Party members of perfectly acceptable goodwill who realise their part in all this as voters makes them liable for the criminal betrayal of their responsibility. But there must be a reckoning, not with the Jay Beatties of this world whose consciences will punish them, but with the "useful idiots" who salivate at the Donkey Party's wrecking, of which RBT has more than its fair share.
> >
> > Scum is as scum does.
> >
> > Andre Jute
> > Hey, I just tell it like it is. If the message is too powerful for you, don't read it.
> > >
> If the Walmart in my town were to close, Andre, it would impact my finances pretty severely because I do as much of my grocery shopping there as possible because it is a lot cheaper than the supermarket chains. (Example: a bottle of my favorite spaghetti sauce is $2.58 at Walmart and $3.99 at the grocery chain store.)
>

Your present government doesn't care about what its policy of cosseting and encouraging criminals is doing to you, William, nor to an entire working class, nor to pensioners on fixed incomes who have been cold and hungry this winter. That is why I say the closing of all the Walmart stores in an entire once-civilised city is "as stark as it gets". The left wing of the Donkey Party wants you, and the working class, and the pensioners, dead. I'm not joking, and I'm not being provocative: I've proven again and again (as if proof were still required!) that the Left is a genocidal force. But they're not even ashamed of it. As Peter Cole, a sometime contributor to RBT, concluded, I have the facts for instance about the banning of DDT, which is easily proven to be the greatest genocide of all time and still happening as I write to you, caused by American environmentalists and politicians (the Nixon Administration which wanted what they considered the trivial irritation of the greenies' fixation on DDT gone) -- but Cole said specifically that if he agreed with the truth I had proven, he would have no friends left. I've seen that again and again. I have nothing but contempt for people who think their friends are worth more than the principles of humanity.

>
> But here are my rhetorical questions: (preface:) it seems like there are a lot of people in the U.S. who just can't (or won't) cut it, financially, and therefore turn to a life of crime.
>

The concept and legislation of what is now known as "President Johnson's Great Society" originated with Republicans practising "compassionate conservatism", so nobody escapes the blame. Johnson passed the legislation (and invented the name) because he knew the Republicans could defeat a veto. A bone deep racist, Johnson bragged that "The Democrats will own the [n-name] vote for a generation." He was wrong. This is two generations later and his forecast is still valid. What do you think two generation of government policy which created fatherless families, that is, families without an authority figure and an example to emulate, would do to the group it targeted, in this case by their colour? Then the racists on the left had second thoughts about all the black babies this policy created and started a huge eugenic genocide -- 60 million and counting -- which they dressed up as the "right" of abortion, mainly of black babies.

>
>(Now the rhetorical questions:) I wonder how many people we would have to incarcerate in order to remedy the crime problem; how much it would cost; and what would be the effect on our society of locking so many people up.

Before this latest sanctimonious splurge of brotherly love for violent criminals. America anyway had the largest per capita rate of incarceration. Some of it was stupid policies, some of it was prosecutorial overreach. Did you know that in the UK, by any account until recently a civilised society with respect for law, prosecutors don't run for office and aren't elected but appointed by politically independent authorities, or hired on an ad hoc basis from the pool of lawyers who specialise in particular branches of the law by the Crown Prosecutor's Office? The problem with politically appointed prosecutors and judges as in the US, if they have no respect for the law as laid down by elected representatives, is that respect for property too fails soon and inevitably, and then the middle classes start to worry about the security of their houses -- and the Walmarts start closing because they don't have the margins to survive in a place where those in authority reward criminals with liberty. I cannot think of anything more destabilisling to society than that, except a major unprovoked sneak attack by a capable enemy nation; even a major drugs epidemic runs lack of respect for property rights only a close third after the destruction of the core family.

> Maybe incarcerating all the criminals would create a new constellation of societal problems that are not easy to envision from this vantage point.
>

Of course there will be problems -- for the criminals, who created the problem in the first instance. I weep for them -- and anybody who believes that is thicker than two short planks together.
>
The first priority of a competent government is not to coddle criminals like Antifa, BLM and pinko prosecutors, but to ensure the safety of its citizens. The Biden Administration created all these problems by being more concerned about letting in economic migrants by the million with zero skills or education relevant to a modern industrialised society

>
> (Just asking/saying. As is probably apparent, I surely don't claim to have any answers.)
>

If you don't speak up, William, why were you privileged with a decent education and a good brain? These are not intractable problems; the United States grew to be the most blessed society on earth through much more concerning problems than a crime and drugs wave, and a dumb government-created destructive inflation. Mr Trump will solve the problems that poor old man Biden created in short order when he returns triumphantly on 20 January 2025 by simply undoing everything Biden's Administration did. Undoing the evil Johnson did (we'll overlook the Republicans' parental part in that disaster) with his Great Society will take longer to reverse, especially with the Donkey Party now so practised at deliberate, vicious race-mongering.
>
Andre Jute
Man is noways perfectible. That is the prime fact of nature, and should be the prime basis of any useful policy.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 7:10:32 AM UTC-5, the angry little afro-irish troll sharted:

> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 8:50:32 AM UTC, William Crowell wrote:
>
> > If the Walmart in my town were to close, Andre, it would impact my finances pretty severely because I do as much of my grocery shopping there as possible because it is a lot cheaper than the supermarket chains. (Example: a bottle of my favorite spaghetti sauce is $2.58 at Walmart and $3.99 at the grocery chain store.)
> >
> Your present government doesn't care about what its policy of cosseting and encouraging criminals is doing to you, William, nor to an entire working class, nor to pensioners on fixed incomes who have been cold and hungry this winter. That is why I say the closing of all the Walmart stores in an entire once-civilised city is "as stark as it gets". The left wing of the Donkey Party wants you, and the working class, and the pensioners, dead. I'm not joking, and I'm not being provocative: I've proven again and again (as if proof were still required!) that the Left is a genocidal force.

Bill, don't buy into jute's inane rants. Here we have a troll claiming "the left is a genocidal force" who willingly lives in a country with: some of the strictest gun control laws in Europe; a Social Welfare system that makes American left-wingers look like abject capitalists (to the extent that they give out car and cellphone allowances and even Christmas bonuses), an environmental policy in full alignment with the Paris Accord; A fully socialized health-care system; and major media outlets that have actually been sanctioned for left-wing biased media reporting essentially promoting the ruling party platform (especially with regards to their promotion of pro-choice legislation which incidentally passed overwhelmingly, to reference his pearl-clutching about "black babies" below) . He's become so accustomed and dependent on the Irish social safety system he can't afford to leave - so much for any shred of integrity.

jute's revisionist history of American politics (read: outright lies) are nothing more than parroting christian nationalist propaganda. What should we expect from someone that the ANC chased out of South Africa for his writings supporting the Apartheid regime, to the extent that he had to seek asylum in Ireland (which was then much more conservative and right-wing than now)? Evidence? His criticism of the Johnson era policies of the Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts which served to (almost) entirely dismantle the Jim Crow institutionalized racism of the American south east to the extent that he calls them 'racist'. Jute wants - nay, _longs_ to return to the white supremacist roots of his youth, but he knows his lot in Ireland is fixed. He sees the current political divide in the US where trump actively courts the rubes on the left side of the
Bell Curve as an outlet for his frustration. Of course he'll probably lie and claim it was the Apartheid government that chased him out, but we know this isn't true because he would have gone home to celebrate the triumph of the ANC - he never did. jute is such a hypocrite, troll, and liar that even Richard Spencer bends a knee in fealty.

[William Crowell]

Many years ago I was looking at U.S. History books in the public library and came across Prof. Page Smith's multi-volume work. I turned out to be the most detailed U.S. history treatise that I've ever come across. The second chapter of the first volume discusses who came to the U.S. as settlers. London had decided that public hangings for all kinds of crime weren't such a great idea, so they exiled the bad actors to the colonies instead. What a motley assortment of murderers, thieves, burglars, kidnappers, highwaymen, pickpockets, "spirits" (guys who would befriend you, and then waylay and "crimp" (shanghai) you), prostitutes, bastard children and others of a similar ilk they were.

[AMuzi]

On 3/7/2023 2:50 AM, William Crowell wrote:

The 'just-so story' about some causal link between poverty
and crime has been repeatedly disproved. And yet it persists.

There are serious problems in our culture but that is not
one of them.

one of many:

https://www.city-journal.org/poverty-and-violent-crime-dont-go-hand-in-hand


--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

On 3/7/2023 4:08 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> Lou asked: "Why am I or you not a criminal?"
>
> In my case it's probably because I knew how ashamed it would have made my parents, and I could never live with that guilt. Also, every year we would have a family reunion (large family; my paternal grandparents had 19 kids. Just think how many they would have had if they'd been Catholic!) and and at these reunions my grandmother and my aunts would tell us young kids that no one in our large family had ever been convicted of a serious crime, and that if we ever were the entire extended family would disown us.
>

+1

Glad to see your reference to the content of one's character.

[Tom Kunich]

Jay ran like a little boy from his part in the destruction of his own city and his own law firm. I suspect that he was let go when the partners discovered what he had been saying in private - that these full scale riots were "mostly peaceful".

[Tom Kunich]

Bill, you arfe right that there is a reason that they turn to a life of crime. But most do it because there is NO retribution. If you give people an honest judicial system that punished the wicked then there is little incentive to use crime as an out for financial difficulties and more of an incentive to avoid party politics and vote for people that have honest answers. My younger brother would vote for Democrats if they were standing outside of the voting booth a killing anyone that voted for a Republican.

[Tom Kunich]

You are right that it does solve the problem but it help defeat the cause of the problem. You and I are not criminals because we got jobs and satisfactory income from them. Others like Lieberman were simply too frightened of people to be a criminal and at this time he MAY be a criminal because he could never make much of a living and if he hasn't been living off of an inheritance he may be using computer crimes to steal a living. But that only lasts so long. I just canceled my membership in Amazon which was a extremely painful procedure now. You have to make wild-eyed choices in what appears to be disconnected menu items;. And if you connect with their "customer non-service" it does you no good. They are totally unhelpful.

[Tom Kunich]

They just put a black man on trial here for mass murder - he killed 10 people just walking home at night over a several week period. His lawyer moved to not allow the death sentence. He liked killing people. Krygowski thinks that he is safe from that. that is because he is a racist pig and he thinks that mental instabilities only happen to inferior people like blacks. He then supports people who continuously spout the lie that today's blacks are discriminated against by people other than rich Democrats. This in large part is what causes crimes like these.

[Tom Kunich]

Roger, you're doing nothing more than spouting truisms. How do you recognized people that are that sick before they do something serious? Do you, like Frank, deny people their Constitutional rights?

[Tom Kunich]

The real key is respect for others rights even if you believe that they've done you ill.

[William Crowell]

In that same chapter of the Page Smith, Ph.D, treatise, Tom, Prof. Smith explains that one of the reasons London quit doing the public hangings was they weren't acting as the intended deterrent. Pickpocketing was a capital offense, yet the pickpockets kept quite busy in the crowd that was watching the hangings.

[Roger Meriman]

Lots of these are covered by education and health if folks are identified
and supported I’m told that this is a population gain quite apart from
doing the right thing it’s finically sensible prisons are expensive.

Nothing is 100% ie anything simple and easy is almost always wrong!

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/7/2023 8:25 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> There are serious problems in our culture but that is not one of them.
> one of many:
>
> https://www.city-journal.org/poverty-and-violent-crime-dont-go-hand-in-hand

Certainly tendency to criminal behavior is not directly controlled by
just one variable. But I think poverty has a strong effect.

Someone once said "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and
poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal
their bread." The (sarcastic) point being desperate people are, the more
likely they'll resort to things that are illegal.

But yes, superimposed on that are the effects of culture within an
ethnic group. Some ethnic cultures seem much more likely to demand
excellence from kids, good behavior from young men, etc. Others not so
much.

But blacks really do have special problems that Asians, Jews, etc. do
not. Almost all originally came here as slaves, so any family culture
must have been impossible to preserve. Roughly half the country went to
war to keep them enslaved. After the war, "Reconstruction" was
politically halted specifically to keep them as an underclass. And
wherever they go, their skin color continues to mark them.

(A PhD chemistry professor I knew was from India, and very dark skinned.
After his first trip down south, he angrily swore he would never go
there again. Despite his education and obvious accent, he was badly
abused because he was dark.)

The real question is what to do about all this starting at this point in
time. How do you correct the existing problems? Despite simplistic
claims, "Just lock them all up" is proven not to work.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

You may be surprised:
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/04/09/a-rising-share-of-the-u-s-black-population-is-foreign-born/

Caribbean and African immigrants on average do very well
here. A couple of years ago Nigerian immigrants were #1 in
earnings among immigrant groups for example.

https://www.ozy.com/around-the-world/the-most-successful-ethnic-group-in-the-u-s-may-surprise-you/86885/

Those populations also show below average crime rates.

And every day's news includes criminal escapades of rich
not-black people. Especially their spoiled amoral progeny.

Poverty does not cause criminality.

[Frank Krygowski]

Nothing you posted there rebuts what I said above!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Crimes of violence are public, pickpocketing is not. It may have been a capital offense but how often were they caught. And it seems to me that most pickpockets were small children.

[Tom Kunich]

Oddly enough, recidivism dropped almost in half when Trump was elected. His pardoning criminals laid up largely for political reasons under the Democrats had a very effective result. So YES, you must treat everyone fairly. Democrats have always believed that you make good on promises whether it is fair or not.

[Andre Jute]

Really, Franki-boy, for an academic, even a low-level one, you are very careless with the facts. Take this for instance:
"But blacks ... Almost all originally came here as slaves..."

Considering that slavery ended in America almost a 160 years ago, there is no chance whatsoever of anyone who was a slave still being alive.

And only a very small percentage of black people in the US are even descendants of slaves.

So, what are you talking about, Franki-boy. Or are you, as so often, confusing wishful thinking with the verifiable facts?

Andre Jute
Enquiring minds want to know!

[Tom Kunich]

Krygowski is a stinking racist that follows the lying Democrat line that everyone else is racist.

[John B.]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 07:25:32 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 3/7/2023 2:50 AM, William Crowell wrote:

And as I had previously posted, there was the case of Whitey Bulger
who's father lost a arm in an industrial accident and couldn't work
and the family was forced into esteem poverty. The oldest son of the
family, "Whitey" became an infamous "gang boss" and committed a number
of murders, finally being murdered while in prison. A younger brother
"William Bulger" joined the Army and apparently completed collage with
the GI Bill and entering politics serving an eighteen-year tenure as
President of the Massachusetts Senate, the longest in history, and
with retirement became president of the University of Massachusetts.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

On 3/7/2023 12:50 AM, William Crowell wrote:

<snip>

> But here are my rhetorical questions: (preface:) it seems like there are a lot of people in the U.S. who just can't (or won't) cut it, financially, and therefore turn to a life of crime. (Now the rhetorical questions:) I wonder how many people we would have to incarcerate in order to remedy the crime problem; how much it would cost; and what would be the effect on our society of locking so many people up. Maybe incarcerating all the criminals would create a new constellation of societal problems that are not easy to envision from this vantage point. (Just asking/saying. As is probably apparent, I surely don't claim to have any answers.)

Walmart stores that closed in Texas (2016 – 2021):
TEXAS
13742 N. Eldridge Parkway, Cypress, TX
721 Dale Evans Drive, Italy, TX
221 S State Hwy 274, Kemp, TX
504 W Pine St., Edgewood, TX
301 Hwy 69 S, Whitewright, TX
122 Commercial Ave., Anson, TX
1003 Telephone Cir., Merkel, TX
5 N 14th St., Haskell, TX
1010 N Main St., Winters, TX
501 N Main, Godley, TX
416 N Third St., Grandview, TX
420 S US 69, Leonard, TX
428 N Dallas St., Palmer, TX
440 E Pine St., Frankston, TX
1787 US Hwy 259 S, Diana, TX
1005 Texas Avenue E, Waskom, TX
870 Taylor St., Hughes Springs, TX
914 North Main St., Lone Star, TX
504 WL Doc Dodson, Naples, TX
12522 Fm 1840, Dekalb, TX
114 Redwater Boulevard West, Maud, TX
14091 FM 490, Raymondville, TX
7480 Padre Island Hwy, Brownsville, TX
8201 N FM 620, Austin, TX
7075 FM 1960 Rd W, Houston, TX
3155 W. Wheatland Road, Dallas, TX
2218 Greenville Ave., Dallas (Greenville), TX
2740 Gessner Rd., Houston, TX
2201 West Southlake Blvd., Southlake, TX
1901 S. Texas Ave., Bryan, TX
4268 Legacy Drive, Frisco, TX

Walmart Stores that closed in Oregon (2016 – 2021)
OREGON
8235 SW Apple Way, Portland, OR
17711 Jean Way, Lake Oswego, OR

But to be fair, it's not just theft that caused so many stores in Texas
to close, there are other factors as well. Household income is lower in
Texas. Texas has a 6.25% sales tax while Oregon has no sales tax.

Texas has 0.82 Costcos per million residents.
Oregon has 3.05 Costcos per million residents.

It's very difficult for Walmart to do well in a State with such a high
concentration of Costco stores.

[John B.]

On Tue, 7 Mar 2023 01:49:31 -0800 (PST), Lou Holtman

<lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 9:50:32?AM UTC+1, William Crowell wrote:

>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 4:05:11?PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>> > You may remember that when Jay defended Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, Antifa, and the nightly arson in Portland, and refused to condemn the State Attorney General, who Jay said was his mate, for letting criminals walk, I blamed him as per my promise when poor Joe Biden was elected President, and forecast disastrous fallout that would drive out the middle classes, the backbone of every successful city, culture, and nation. Jay had no answers and ran away.
>> >
>> > This is as stark as it gets. Pay attention to Texas Governor Abbott's comment, "This is what happens when cities refuse to enforce the rule of law. It allows the mob to take over. Businesses can't operate in that environment, and people can't live in it."
>> >
>> > Walmart Closing Final Locations in Major US City, Months After CEO Warning About Retail Theft
>> > https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2023/03/06/walmart-closes-portland-locations-n2620242
>> >
>> > This is not an incidental consequence. Lenin said, "Things must get worse, much worse, before they get better." The Left's wrecking policy -- Horselaugh Kamala collecting money to put up the bail for criminals -- is the deliberate creation of chaos so that they can step into the vacuum that follows the destruction of security and grab power.
>> >
>> > Wheeler, and other crime-friendly blue-city mayors like him, is a criminal.
>> >
>> > I feel the pain of lifelong Donkey Party members of perfectly acceptable goodwill who realise their part in all this as voters makes them liable for the criminal betrayal of their responsibility. But there must be a reckoning, not with the Jay Beatties of this world whose consciences will punish them, but with the "useful idiots" who salivate at the Donkey Party's wrecking, of which RBT has more than its fair share.
>> >
>> > Scum is as scum does.
>> >
>> > Andre Jute
>> > Hey, I just tell it like it is. If the message is too powerful for you, don't read it.
>> > >
>> If the Walmart in my town were to close, Andre, it would impact my finances pretty severely because I do as much of my grocery shopping there as possible because it is a lot cheaper than the supermarket chains. (Example: a bottle of my favorite spaghetti sauce is $2.58 at Walmart and $3.99 at the grocery chain store.)
>>

>> But here are my rhetorical questions: (preface:) it seems like there are a lot of people in the U.S. who just can't (or won't) cut it, financially, and therefore turn to a life of crime. (Now the rhetorical questions:) I wonder how many people we would have to incarcerate in order to remedy the crime problem; how much it would cost; and what would be the effect on our society of locking so many people up. Maybe incarcerating all the criminals would create a new constellation of societal problems that are not easy to envision from this vantage point. (Just asking/saying. As is probably apparent, I surely don't claim to have any answers.)
>
>

>It is my strong belief that locking up people doesn't solve the underlying problem. Why am I or you not a criminal?
>
>Lou

But, if incarcerating the "bad guys" is not the answer, what is?

I would comment that pointing the finger and saying "that's a bad
idea" is easy, but providing a solution is often difficult :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Tue, 07 Mar 2023 11:19:29 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 9:50:32?AM UTC+1, William Crowell wrote:

But studies show that of those incarcerated a very large percent
continue to commit crimes when released

The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests
during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released
prisoner. Sixty percent of these arrests occurred during years 4
through 9....
Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the
first year following release, and, "83% within 9 years."
https://bjs.ojp.gov/library/publications/2018-update-prisoner-recidivism-9-year-follow-period-2005-2014

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

OK, I'll avoid the word 'solution'.

How about a 'public service' ?

https://cwbchicago.com/2023/03/attempted-murder-random-stab-on-bail-chicago-crime.html

The four people she slashed who would probably agree she
should have been locked up after the first one.

[John B.]

Errrr.... I was responding to the comment that "It is my strong belief
that locking up people doesn't solve the underlying problem" by
saying, "if incarcerating the "bad guys" is not the answer, what is?"

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

I conceded that 'solving the underlying problem' may not be
a realistic goal.

Merely keeping taxpayers alive is a good interim policy
objective in my humble opinion. Had she been incarcerated
after the first one, four people would not have shed blood
in the second escapade.

Peruse any large city's overnight news for a passel of
similar stories. Every day.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/7/2023 3:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Oddly enough, recidivism dropped almost in half when Trump was elected.

Wow. I'd like to read about that. Got a link?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/7/2023 7:51 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> But studies show that of those incarcerated a very large percent
> continue to commit crimes when released

I'd be interested in seeing how that varies by nation, especially in the
various modern and prosperous countries.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Interesting article today on Toronto:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/toronto-violence-gun-deaths-2023-185611550.html

They seem to be saying the difference came from other tactics than "just
lock 'em all up."

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

The article doesn't say whether the woman was arrested after the first
"stabbing", but if so was she free on bail?

But the whining about "Ohh so costly to keep people in jail" seems to
disregard the fact that "Ohh so many crimes are committed".

One solution might be "Prison Farms" as I read that they do produce
food far cheaper then local "civilian" costs

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Meriman]

That’s kinda my point, once someone is in the system ie crime it’s
difficult to change careers/life choices not impossible but difficult.

It’s much easier and cheaper if you catch struggling folks in
education/health services than at prison.

Roger Merriman

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 4:57:11 PM UTC-5, the angry little hypocrite sharted:

>
> >
> > --
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Really, Franki-boy, for an academic, even a low-level one, you are very careless with the facts. Take this for instance:
> "But blacks ... Almost all originally came here as slaves..."
>
> Considering that slavery ended in America almost a 160 years ago, there is no chance whatsoever of anyone who was a slave still being alive.

He didn't write that, but we should expect a lying POS like you to build a strawman, as evidenced by your obvious (poor) attempt at deceptive editing.

>
> And only a very small percentage of black people in the US are even descendants of slaves.

And as usual, the afro-irish troll types out of his ass totally devoid of any factual reference. Try this one on for size skippy:

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2015/04/09/a-rising-share-of-the-u-s-black-population-is-foreign-born/
"In the nation’s earliest censuses (at the end of the 18th century), blacks accounted for nearly one-fifth of the U.S. population, with nearly all brought to the U.S. as slaves from Africa. Today, most of the nation’s 40 million U.S.-born blacks trace their roots to this population."

yeah yeah, we know, the Pew foundation is a left-wing propaganda tool....<eyeroll>

>
> So, what are you talking about, Franki-boy. Or are you, as so often, confusing wishful thinking with the verifiable facts?

HAH!!!! You're the last person in this forum to be talking about verifiable facts. Care to back up "only a very small percentage of black people in the US are even descendants of slaves"? (hint: as with your complete misunderstanding of what constitutes good science, just because your claim aligns with your apartheid sensibilities doesn't make it true - in fact, that fact that you claim it almost certainly makes it false)

>
> Andre Jute
> Enquiring minds want to know!

Shut the fuck up you ignorant troll.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 11:03:13 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/7/2023 3:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Oddly enough, recidivism dropped almost in half when Trump was elected.
> Wow. I'd like to read about that. Got a link?
>

the two dumb and dumber twins must get together and exchange notes on fabricating information, take the trolls claim that "only a very small percentage of black people in the US are even descendants of slaves" above - claiming it's 'verifiable' yet offering no verification.

[Andre Jute]

It's hard to find a professional in psychiatric/clinical psychology practice in the prison service, or those in the prison service in managerial capacities, who doesn't believe that incarceration is best seen as removing sociopaths from society, period, a necessary service. -- AJ

[AMuzi]

On 3/7/2023 10:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 3/7/2023 3:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Oddly enough, recidivism dropped almost in half when Trump
>> was elected.
>
> Wow. I'd like to read about that. Got a link?
>

I don't know.

But the entire subject area is amazingly complex. Take a
few minutes with some actual data:
https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html

I could see a probable reduction in that all arrests,
incarcerations and convictions dropped during 2020~2022 due
to a host of State and local policy decisions (not
underlying crime rates). Note that the overwhelming bulk of
those are State and local, not Federal, so anything Mr Trump
did or did not do is likely irrelevant.

[Tom Kunich]

Well, I'm not sure about Slocomb, but the other Stupid 4 are all for releasing extremely dangerous criminals out on the street as long as it isn't in their neighborhoods., Perhaps the very worse of these us Scharf who could cause a snail to vomit.

[Tom Kunich]

Frank must have an extremely miserable life when he has to beg his worst enemy for help to find things. Imagine how stupid you have to be to be unable to use a search engine?

https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-supports-legislative-action-reduce-recidivism-prison-system/

https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/other-voices/article222384460.html

Of course the recidivism only occurred in Federal prisons' because in order to oppose any possible reforms, the Democrat state governments doubled down on ignoring the decrease in recidivism with reforms and increased their unfair treatment of criminals. Imagine giving a 21 year old drug dealer life in prison for his third offense!

But this was impossibly difficult for that ignorant ass Krygowski to find so he begs me to help him. Remember that this is the person that was teaching children.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/8/2023 11:38 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 6:02:01 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 3/7/2023 10:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 3/7/2023 3:56 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oddly enough, recidivism dropped almost in half when Trump
>>>> was elected.
>>>
>>> Wow. I'd like to read about that. Got a link?
>>>
>> I don't know.
>>
>> But the entire subject area is amazingly complex. Take a
>> few minutes with some actual data:
>> https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2022.html
>>
>> I could see a probable reduction in that all arrests,
>> incarcerations and convictions dropped during 2020~2022 due
>> to a host of State and local policy decisions (not
>> underlying crime rates). Note that the overwhelming bulk of
>> those are State and local, not Federal, so anything Mr Trump
>> did or did not do is likely irrelevant.
>
> Frank must have an extremely miserable life when he has to beg his worst enemy for help to find things. Imagine how stupid you have to be to be unable to use a search engine?
>
> https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-supports-legislative-action-reduce-recidivism-prison-system/
>
> https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/other-voices/article222384460.html

Tom, you're confused again. I wasn't looking for promises or aspirations
by the Trump administration. I was looking for the _results_ you claimed.

To be clear, perhaps those results were in the 2nd link. But it's not
very helpful to post a link hidden behind a paywall.

So I'd _still_ like to read about how "recidivism dropped almost in half
when Trump was elected."

Do you have a link corroborating that claim?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

Besides property crime being slightly higher in Texas cities (Dallas and
Houston) than Portland, there's a huge difference in murder rates:

Homicide Rates/100,000 people
-----------------------------
Portland: 3.70
San Francisco: 6.35
Los Angeles: 7.01
Houston: 11.50
Dallas: 12.48

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:59:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>So I'd _still_ like to read about how "recidivism dropped almost in half
>when Trump was elected."

This might help, but only for repeated illegal immigration within a
single year. Statistics are from the border patrol[1].

"CBP Enforcement Statistics FY2018"
<https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics>
<https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics-fy2018>
Combining the two tables and reformatting:
FY13 FY14 FY15 FY16 FY17 FY18 FY19 FY20 FY21
16% 14% 14% 12% 10% 11% 7% 26% 27%

Looks like about 15% of the border hoppers came back for a 2nd try in
the same year, until Covid arrived in 2019. Trump was president from
Jan 2017 to Jan 2021. The numbers are from the fiscal year and
therefore delayed a few months. I do see about a 4% or 5% drop in
repeat offenders in FY17 and FY18. Covid-19 arrived in 2019 causing a
reduction in immigration due to travel restrictions. However, in FY20
and FY21, the rate increased to 26% - 27% for various reasons.
Whatever the numbers, there was no 50% reduction in recidivism between
FY13 and FY21.

[1] Recidivism refers to percentage of individuals apprehended more
than one time by the Border Patrol within a fiscal year.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/8/2023 9:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:59:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> So I'd _still_ like to read about how "recidivism dropped almost in half
>> when Trump was elected."
>
> This might help, but only for repeated illegal immigration within a
> single year. Statistics are from the border patrol[1].
>
> "CBP Enforcement Statistics FY2018"
> <https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics>
> <https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics-fy2018>
> Combining the two tables and reformatting:
> FY13 FY14 FY15 FY16 FY17 FY18 FY19 FY20 FY21
> 16% 14% 14% 12% 10% 11% 7% 26% 27%
>
> Looks like about 15% of the border hoppers came back for a 2nd try in
> the same year, until Covid arrived in 2019. Trump was president from
> Jan 2017 to Jan 2021. The numbers are from the fiscal year and
> therefore delayed a few months. I do see about a 4% or 5% drop in
> repeat offenders in FY17 and FY18. Covid-19 arrived in 2019 causing a
> reduction in immigration due to travel restrictions. However, in FY20
> and FY21, the rate increased to 26% - 27% for various reasons.
> Whatever the numbers, there was no 50% reduction in recidivism between
> FY13 and FY21.
>
> [1] Recidivism refers to percentage of individuals apprehended more
> than one time by the Border Patrol within a fiscal year.

Was Kunich talking about border crossing recidivism or general crime
recidivism?

(And did he even know?)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 3/8/2023 8:20 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2023 12:59:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> So I'd _still_ like to read about how "recidivism dropped almost in half
>> when Trump was elected."
>
> This might help, but only for repeated illegal immigration within a
> single year. Statistics are from the border patrol[1].
>
> "CBP Enforcement Statistics FY2018"
> <https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics>
> <https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics-fy2018>
> Combining the two tables and reformatting:
> FY13 FY14 FY15 FY16 FY17 FY18 FY19 FY20 FY21
> 16% 14% 14% 12% 10% 11% 7% 26% 27%
>
> Looks like about 15% of the border hoppers came back for a 2nd try in
> the same year, until Covid arrived in 2019. Trump was president from
> Jan 2017 to Jan 2021. The numbers are from the fiscal year and
> therefore delayed a few months. I do see about a 4% or 5% drop in
> repeat offenders in FY17 and FY18. Covid-19 arrived in 2019 causing a
> reduction in immigration due to travel restrictions. However, in FY20
> and FY21, the rate increased to 26% - 27% for various reasons.
> Whatever the numbers, there was no 50% reduction in recidivism between
> FY13 and FY21.
>
> [1] Recidivism refers to percentage of individuals apprehended more
> than one time by the Border Patrol within a fiscal year.
>

The Wuhan virus was circulating in china and Italy in late
2019 but the first reported[1] US cases were in suburban
Seattle in early 2020.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-confirmed-case-of-coronavirus-found-in-us-washington-state

[1] I assume that the bioweapon itself has no relevance to
your data set, only perceived effect of social and
regulatory changes and policies (or lack thereof) in
official reaction to the virus, such that any of those
changed illegal entrants' behavior or risk analysis.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Thanks. You're correct. I slipped a year. I thought that Covid-19
was named as such because it started in 2019.

"CDC Museum COVID-19 Timeline"
<https://www.cdc.gov/museum/timeline/covid19.html>
Looks like travel restrictions started on Jan 17, 2020 along with the
first case in the US.

If Covid-19 travel restrictions were not present in 2019, then I can't
claim that the reduction in recidivism in 2019 was due to travel
restrictions. I'm open to suggestions as to what caused the drop.

Also, note that the rate may have dropped in FY19, but increased
dramatically in FY20 and FY21. Whatever the Trump administration
might have done to decrease repeat illegal immigration lasted only one
year, and then DOUBLED in the next 2 years, both while he was mostly
still in office.

Foot Note: There are two major storms approaching the US left coast
starting on Thursday afternoon and ending Tues morning.
"Atmospheric River Scale Forecast Products"
<https://cw3e.ucsd.edu/arscale/>
Select "37N 122.5W" in the two "Location" boxes for my area.

[AMuzi]

The previous administration enhanced border enforcement,
including wall construction, starting in early 2017. Results
naturally lag inception or as the economists say, 'You can't
make a baby in a month by getting nine women pregnant.'

That administration ended sharply in mid January 2021 and
most of its policies were promptly reversed in a slew of
Executive Orders.

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2021/politics/biden-executive-orders/

Executive Orders are not law. They direct pattern and
practice of Federal employees. Border Patrol has been
especially vociferous about not being allowed to do their jobs.

https://davespaper.com/border-patrol-agents-say-they-arent-allowed-to-do-their-job-feel-downtrodden-almost-dead-inside/

Yes, I have read California news and seen photos of your
exceptionally snowy winter. We expect 6~8 inches tonight
into Friday but that's normal here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/us/san-bernardino-snow-storm-deaths.html

[Tom Kunich]

Trump was elected and instantly the numbers of drug seizures doubled. To Lieberman this means that suddenly the cartels were shipping more drugs. I suspect after looking at the homicide rates that this was most likely age related and also when they started happily making mass murder movies in Hollywood. Murders are typically committed by young men and not those in their 40's with more interest in extending their own lives.

I have a younger brother that claims that I know nothing about nothing and that all I'm doing is repeating FOX news. Well, he can keep that sort of belief if it makes him feel better. And likewise for Lieberman who every days is being proven 100% wrong by yet another study. Even to the point where the latest CDC recommendation for covid-19 boosters is for people over 75 only. Not for children as young as 6 months as it was under Fauci. Congressional testimony by the head of the CDC under Trump "Robert R. Redfield" said, and was backed up by emails and recorded phone conversations that Fauci and another group of Lord Fauci's followers cut Redfield totally out of conversation on the origin of covid and Fauci's part in it.

The Stupid 5 are getting their come uppance every day as more and more information comes out.

Question, why is ROMNEY arguing that Jan 6th was an insurrection? After looking at the FINALLY released video footage you can see that the Democrats AND ROMNEY lied about police officers being killed since after everyone was out the footage shows all of the officers claimed to have been killed as walking around well and safe. No heart attacks, no clubbing with fire extinguishers and no being tickled on the bottoms of their feet until they laughed themselves to death. In fact, the ONLY one that was killed was a veteran by a cop with a RECORD of shooting people without reason.

Funny thing truth - it is always injurious to liars. There seems to be a lot of that in Washington and it is going to be cleaned out. And the Stupid 5 are angry about that.

Locally, they arrested a man for making bombs. His garage was literally FILLED with bomb making materials. What did they show on TV? A picture of an AR15. We don't even know if they found that in his possession and if so what that has to do with making bombs? He wasn't threatening to shoot anyone and while possession of bomb making materials in that volume is a felony he only threatened to bomb someone and I don't believe anyone was injured by a bomb he made.

So why the hoplophobia?

[Frank Krygowski]

On 3/9/2023 11:07 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Trump was elected and instantly the numbers of drug seizures doubled.

Interesting. I don't remember hearing that. Got details on that, and
citations?

> I have a younger brother that claims that I know nothing about nothing and that all I'm doing is repeating FOX news.

:-) So those who've lived with you and know you best share our opinions!

Is he the one who did what you can't do - instead of complaining, just
move to a place he liked better?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Peter Cole]

Hey AJ,

I'm flattered that you remember me.

Peter Cole

[AMuzi]

Welcome back, Mr Cole!

[Andre Jute]

How can I forget a fellow so reckless (or well-balanced!) that he peels an apple, surely a two-handed process, while riding a bicycle?

Welcome back.

Andre Jute
I wish I could do that.
>